SPECIAL EPISODE

Lt. Col. Nichole “Vapor” Ayers ’11 joins us from orbit! SUMMARY
From cadet to astronaut, she shares how the U.S. Air Force Academy prepared her for life aboard the International Space Station, the lessons space learned in the space program about leadership and how viewing Earth from 250 miles up re-shapes one's call to serve.
 
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COL. AYERS' TOP 10 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS
 - Seeing Earth from space changes your perspective on leadership.
 - The fragility of Earth inspires a desire to protect it.
 - A lifelong dream of becoming an astronaut requires hard work and dedication.
 - Teamwork at the Air Force Academy prepared me for life in space.
 - Daily routines on the ISS are structured and focused on science and maintenance.
 - Astronauts are normal humans, not just heroes in space.
 - Quick thinking and calm leadership are crucial during space missions.
 - Community support is vital for success in unconventional paths.
 - Inspiring the next generation is a key part of my mission.
 - Curiosity and exploration should be fostered in young people.
 
CHAPTERS
00:00 Journey to the Stars: Becoming an Astronaut
03:32 Life Aboard the ISS: Daily Routines and Responsibilities
07:23 Lessons in Leadership: Quick Thinking in Space
10:54 Observations from Above: Humanity and Resilience
12:10 Inspiring the Next Generation: A Sense of Purpose
13:17 The Long Blue Line: Community and Support
 
 
ABOUT NICHOLE
BIO
U.S. Air Force Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers is a trailblazing pilot, leader, and astronaut whose journey began at the United States Air Force Academy, where she graduated in 2011 with a degree in mathematics. An accomplished F-22 Raptor pilot, Ayers is one of the few women ever to fly the world’s most advanced stealth fighter—and she’s one of even fewer to command them in formation for combat training missions.
Col. Ayers earned her wings through years of training and operational excellence, logging over 200 flight hours in combat and playing a critical role in advancing tactical aviation. Her exceptional performance led to her selection in 2021 by NASA as a member of Astronaut Group 23, an elite class of 10 chosen from among 12,000 applicants.
As a NASA astronaut candidate, Col. Ayers completed intensive training at Johnson Space Center, which included spacewalk preparation, robotics, survival training, systems operations, and Russian language. Now qualified for spaceflight, she stands on the threshold of a new chapter that led her to the International Space Station.
Throughout her career, Col. Ayers has exemplified the Academy's core values of Integrity First, Service Before Self, and Excellence in All We Do. Her journey from cadet to combat aviator to astronaut is a testament to resilience, determination, and a passion for pushing boundaries.
 
LEARN MORE ABOUT NICHOLE
NASA Astronaut Nichole Ayers
 
 
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TRANSCRIPT
SPEAKERS
Guest, Lt. Col. Nichole "Vapor" Ayers ’11  |  Host, Lt. Col. (ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99
 
NASA  00:00
Station, this is Houston. Are you ready for the event?
 
Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers  00:05
Houston, Station, I'm ready for the event.
 
NASA
Air Force Academy, this is Mission Control, Houston. Please call Station for a voice check.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  00:13
Station, this is Lt. Col. Naviere Walkewicz. How do you hear me?
 
Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers  00:17
Hi, ma'am. I've got you loud and clear. Welcome to the International Space Station.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  00:20
Welcome to a special presentation of the US, Air Force Academy, Association and Foundation’s, Long Blue Line Podcast Network. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of ’99. I was honored recently to speak with a true pioneer, United States Air Force Academy graduate, accomplished fighter pilot, 2022 Young Alumni Excellence Award recipient and now NASA astronaut, Lieutenant Colonel Nicole “Vapor” Ayers, Class of 2011, Vapor joined us from the International Space Station orbiting about 250 miles above Earth. Her journey from Cadet to astronaut embodies the pursuit of excellence and the spirit of exploration that distinguishes the Long Blue Line. For this conversation Vapor and I explored what it means to be a human in the vastness of space, how one's perspective shifts when Earth shows up as a distant blue marble, and what her journey can tell us about courage, connection and the Future. Lieutenant Colonel Ayers, this is such an honor. So excited. Seeing Earth from space forever changes your perspective. How was the experience for you? And how has it changed the way you view your role as a leader?
 
Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers  01:32
Yeah, you know, I think for everybody, the experience is slightly different. For me, seeing the earth from the Dragon window for the first time was one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. And then seeing the Earth every day from the cupola and then the lab window that we have here, you know, you don't see country or state lines on the Earth, right? There's not like each state has a different solid color, right? There's just geography and just terrain. And so you get to learn the world all over again in terms of colors and textures and geography and water. You know, there's so much water on this earth, and it's hard to put it into perspective until you're actually looking at the Earth, and it's, it's something that has really hit me, because the Earth is so fragile. You know, we see these beautiful auroras, we see thunderstorms, we see different natural disasters, and it's really kind of made me want to take better care of this earth. And you know, when I get home, I want to just do things a little bit better and just take that extra step, to take my make my part in taking good care of this earth.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  02:38
That makes amazing sense. And, you know, I think it takes us to kind of your path to becoming an astronaut. Can you walk us through what that was like?
 
Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers  02:47
Yeah, sure. So, you know, I was, I've been saying that I wanted to be an astronaut since I was little kid. And, you know, I always had an affinity for space and for the sky. And growing up in the Shuttle era, you know, as soon as I learned that you could fly the shuttle be the pilot. I was like, “Ooh, that's what I want to do.” And so, the very serious little Nichole set my goals really high and started working towards that path. And, you know, grew up right there in Colorado Springs, watched the Air Force Academy graduation, you know, and the Thunderbirds fly over every year. And it just kind of seemed like a natural path for me to go to the Air Force Academy, become a pilot and try to pursue the astronaut dream from the pilot’s perspective. So you know, I worked really hard, set my goals really high, and never got bumped off that path and was able to apply and actually get selected. And now here I am talking to you from the International Space Station.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  03:36
And it's pretty incredible being able to see you weightless there, and you're here in its full glory. It's pretty amazing. Can you, talk about your time at the Air Force Academy? Specifically, what foundational experiences would you say have really kind of played a part with your life in space right now?
 
Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers  03:54
Yeah you know, I think the Air Force Academy, for me, the biggest part was just being on teams. You know, I played volleyball there. And, you know, I would say every Squadron is its own little team. And you know, as a four degree, you're there with all of your classmates, and you're going through training sessions together. And so being on these teams in different environments, and some austere environments and high pressure situations, and learning how to take care of other people in those moments, I think, has been huge in my path to getting here. You know, those, all those words speak truth here on the International Space Station, you know, we're in an austere environment. Sometimes we're under pressure situations, and it's just a few of us up here working together with the ground to make this International Space Station stay in orbit, to execute all of the science and the maintenance and keep it running and continue to learn everything we possibly can, both about space and about Earth in order to inform how we do life on Earth and how we get to the moon and Mars.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  04:47
Thank you. So maybe, can you share with us what your daily routine aboard the ISS is like...
 
Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers  04:53
Yeah, you know, it's not unlike yours. Potentially. You know, our schedule is pretty set to the ground team figures out about, you know, what science and what maintenance needs to be done, and who's going to go do it. We are scheduled from about 7:30 in the morning to 7:30 in the evening, and we get, you know, two to two and a half hours of exercise time so that we can maintain our bone and muscle and cardiovascular health up here. And then when we're not working out, we're, like, I said, executing science. You know, I'm surrounded just here in this module, every single rack has some sort of payload or science experiment going on, so we just kind of follow the schedule. We work with the ground team to figure out where the things are that we need, and the procedures and all of that. But it's not unlike life on Earth...
 
Naviere Walkewicz  05:37
Maybe a little bit different. What's the biggest misconception people have about life on the ISS, you think? And what's something that surprised you while you're being there?
 
Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers  05:48
Man, you know, I've been asked this question before. I'm not sure if I know the biggest misconception. You know, I think that often people kind of put astronauts up on a pedestal, but, you know, we're just humans who like to do, like the work that we do. We're really passionate about what we do. We're good teammates. So we're just normal humans, and it's not the most glamorous job, you know, we do, you know, often wear diapers, or we're working really hard, or things like that. So, you know, just normal humans up here. I think one of the things that surprised me the most, I'll see if I can do this without bumping the Astrobee off the wall here. But for me, it took my brain a while to, you know, get used to seeing people on the wall, or, you know, our treadmills on the wall, or seeing people upside down, and there's no up and down in space. And so it took a while for me to get used to that, and for my brain to kind of remap what I consider up, down, left and right in space. And you know that people are just floating, and we get a float every day, I can let go the mic and talk to you.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  06:46
So we have a lot of cadets and young officers that listen to us. What advice would you give them in the dream of following in your footsteps?
 
Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers  06:56
Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I love to preach hard work and teamwork. You know, find something that you really enjoy doing. You know, NASA needs, I studied math, right? I'm a pilot, but we need doctors. We need scientists, we need engineers. So figure out what you really enjoy doing, work really hard at that thing, and then go find a team you can be on, and figure out how to take care of other people, and figure out how, how you mesh in this world, and how you can and thrive in these small environments or austere environments with other people. So I love to just say, you know, work hard, be a good teammate, and everything will work out in your favor. I think.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  07:30
Can you share if you've received any valuable insights or advice from other Air Force Academy grads who were astronauts?
 
Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers  07:37
Oh, yeah, I think tons, is what I would say, you know, Eric Kjell, and specifically Nick and Roger, who just recently flew and came back, you know, I think that there's been a ton of advice just in terms of of how we do life here on the International Space Station and how, you know, we're going to continue to explore on the Moon and Mars, and how we can share our story, and how we can share all of the science that we're doing. But I think one of the most practical things that I got was from Nick during the handover, when we, we had a couple days up here together, and he said, “Don't forget, you're still squishy.” You know, we're surrounded by a bunch of metal up here. Nothing is very soft. And so if you, if you get moving too quick, or you get too confident, it's very easy to stub a toe or hit something. And so we're still just squishy humans. And you know, if you take that one step further metaphorically, I think, you know, we're still just humans, and we make mistakes, and that's okay, as long as you can bounce back, and as long as you're not going too fast when you hit a handrail too hard.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  08:31
Absolutely. Well, you talked a little bit about the austere environment. What do you hope your mission and your story inspiring the next generation of Academy grads, especially those who feel called to serve in bold and unconventional ways.
 
Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers  08:46
Yeah, you know, I think the bold and unconventional part really hits me, because, you know, growing up during the shuttle era, and then I was at the Air Force Academy when the last shuttle flight flew. And you know, as you grow up, you say you want to be an astronaut, people often say like, Wow, that's awesome. And then when you become an adult, sometimes you don't quite get the same response, you know, sometimes you get a laugh. And so, you know, I would say that even if people don't believe you, or they don't necessarily support what you want to do, if you've got a goal or a dream, just continue to, like I said, work hard at it, you know, put your nose to the grinder. Get really good at whatever it is that you want to go do, and don't let the naysayers get you. You know, there will always be someone there who thinks it's silly, but you will always find someone who supports you. My old commander, Robin, again, he was the one who supported me and got me here, and he said, “Are you silly?” Like, why would you ever think that's silly, or hesitate to tell me what you want to do? So, keep talking about your goals, keep working towards it. And yeah, like I said, maybe someday you could be up here with us.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  09:44
Absolutely bold and unconventional, for sure. And speaking of such space missions demand precision under pressure. Can you share a moment, whether in training or on the ISS where quick thinking and calm leadership made a difference for you?
 
Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers  09:57
Yeah, definitely. I think that I.... Actually, a great example is our space walk that Anne McClain and I did about a month and a half ago. You know, right in the middle of the space walk, the priorities changed and the game plan changed. And if you were just an onlooker watching, sitting at home watching, you may not have even noticed that. And I think that's a huge testament to our ground team and our flight director, Deanna Trujillo, for the day, you know, her ability to lead that ground team and change the game plan on the fly, and then get those words up to us through some calm loss and some other hardships that we were working through, and then for us, for Anna and I, to work together, both just the two of us out outside the space station and the vacuum of space, but also us with the ground to make that all look very seamless. We're very proud of how that space walk went, and our ability to kind of change the plan on the fly, execute, come up with new ways of doing things, and figuring out how we're going to leave the station in a good state, and also achieve all those objectives. So think that was we're actually really proud of the way that we, you know, manage all of those changes, and hopefully to the onlooker like yourself. It looks seamless.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  11:04
Absolutely and it kind of talks a little bit to what you said earlier about, you know, seeing Earth from a different vantage point and wanting to protect it. I'd like to actually ask you more about that. So can you share, from your vantage point what you've observed about humanity and the resilience as you, as you look on it, from us, from our perspective here on Earth, and you being up there,
 
Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers  11:24
Yeah, you know, I think that one of the biggest things that, you know, I mentioned the natural disasters that we see and, you know, and I feel a sense of duty to photograph and to try to document the things that just humans endure on a daily basis. You know, I talked about thunderstorms or landslides, forest fires, all sorts of things. You know, we see it from such a different vantage point up here. And, you know, knowing that there are people down there who are trying to survive, and knowing that those people will survive, and that we have an entire community that's going to rally around those people in those instances. And you know, just trying to do our part from up here and give, you know, that unique vantage point and give as much data and as much help as we possibly can. I think that's one of the biggest things that our world does well, is, you know, helping each other when we're in need.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  12:09
And Lieutenant Colonel Ayres, maybe you can share what's been the impact of this mission on your sense of purpose, and how do you think it will shape your next chapter when you come back on Earth?
 
Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers  12:22
This is a great question. I've done a lot of thinking about this, you know, you know, finally achieving your childhood dream. What's next? You know, what do you do next? And I think for me, the biggest thing that I want to continue to do is just inspire the next generation. You know, all those little kids who say they want to be astronauts, and then they get laughed at as adults. You know, I think that's it's so important to just foster that curiosity and foster that sense of exploration. And really, you know, encourage the next generation to go do what they're passionate about, because we will always need someone in that niche thing that you're passionate about. And so helping people get there is, is really what I want to do next. And, you know, helping the next youth get to their dreams and their goals and continue to just build this society that continues to explore and as you know, especially as we go to the moon and onto Mars and we commercialize low earth orbit, I think there's so much that we can do. And it's I feel, again, a sense of duty to help the next generation do that?
 
Naviere Walkewicz  13:21
Well, we talk about the next generation and the long blue line being enduring. Is there anything else you'd want to share with Air Force Academy grads in general?
 
Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers  13:30
Yeah, you know, I think it might be a dead horse that I'm beating at this point, but the teamwork is so important. You know, just, just take care of the people around you. Make sure that you're always looking out for each other. You know, the long blue line is a very special thing to be a part of. And, you know, like yourself, you know, I met you a couple years ago, and it feels like I could just go, you know, hang out with you, have dinner, and we could pick up like old friends. And that's what the long blue line is all about. You know, having friends all over the world who can help you. You know, I got to hang out with Nick Hague in space, another member of the long blue line who told me I was going to be squishy. You know, things like that are just the unique moments that we have as Academy grads. You know, there's always going to be someone there who supports you and who loves you and who wants to see you be successful,
 
Naviere Walkewicz  14:15
Wonderful. Thank you so much for this time. There's probably so many more questions we could ask you, but I think the biggest one is just, you know, we would leave you with it's such an honor and a privilege to see you out there. We're proud of everything that you're doing, and we can't wait to see more of what you're able to accomplish while you're in space and when you come back.
 
Lt. Col. Nichole Ayers  14:34
Thank you so much. Like I said, so excited to talk to you today and to just share the experience and also, you know, have a have an influence on the AOG. I'm excited that the AOG is interested in space and interested in all of us who are out here. You know, again, the Long Blue Line is a really cherished and unique group to be a part of. So honored and proud to be a part of that group, and excited that I got to share a little bit of what we do up here with you guys today.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  15:02
Thank you so much for the time. Naviere Walkewicz  Well, before I close, I'd like to share what happened after the podcast. My cell phone rang, and I had a call from government, and I said, “Who could be calling me?” Well, I answered, and wouldn't you know 250 miles above the Earth, Vapor Ayers was calling me on my cell phone just to say what an amazing conversation we had. What technology we have, that she sounded like she was next door. It was an incredible opportunity for us to talk a little bit more about the podcast and highlight what you might hear in an upcoming Checkpoints article. So for now, I'll sign off. I'm Naviere Walkewicz, Class of ’99. Thank you for listening. This has been a special presentation of the US, Air Force Academy, Association and Foundation’s Long Blue Line Podcast Network. You can listen to this and all our podcast network programming at LongBlueLinePodcast.org once more, that's LongBlueLinePodcast.org
 
NASA  16:03
Station, this is Houston. ACR, thank you. That concludes our event.
 
KEYWORDS
NASA, astronaut, International Space Station, Air Force Academy, leadership, resilience, teamwork, space exploration, inspiration, Earth
 
 
 
The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation
 
 
 

Season 3 of the Long Blue Leadership podcast is a wrap! From established national leaders to rising stars, this season features inspiring stories from U.S. Air Force Academy graduates.SUMMARYThis season's guests included Dr. Heather Wilson ’82, former Secretary of the Air Force; Dr. John Torres ’82, NBC News Senior Medical Correspondent; Maj. Gen. Thomas Sherman ’95, Vice Superintendent of the U.S. Air Force Academy, and 2nd Lt.  Wyatt Hendrickson ’24, NCAA wrestling champion.
 
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TAKEAWAYS
Leadership is about collecting tools over time.
Your identity is not defined by your profession.
Intentionality in actions leads to personal growth.
Leadership can be practiced at any level.
Admitting mistakes quickly is crucial for growth.
Respect and loyalty are earned through care.
Every moment is an opportunity to make an impact.
Legacy is built in real-time interactions.
Conversations can unlock deeper insights about leadership.
Sharing stories fosters connection and learning.
 
CHAPTERS
00:00 Celebrating leadership lessons from Season 3 03:07 Insights from Dr. Heather Wilson ’82 05:47 Chad Hennings ’88 on identity and leadership 08:55 Young leader Wyatt Hendrickson's ’24 journey 11:51 Jemal Singleton ’99, leading where you are 14:53 Emma Przybyslawski ’10 on leadership beyond the uniform 17:49 Dr. John Torres ’82, earning respect and loyalty 20:37 Maj. Gen. Thomas P. Sherman ’95 on trust, courage, and legacy 23:47 Looking ahead to Season 4
 
ABOUT OUR HOSTS
BIO's
LT. COL. (RET.) NAVIERE WALKEWICZ ’99
Senior Vice President, Engagement
With over two decades in leadership roles, my current focus at the Association of Graduates - U.S. Air Force Academy is fostering a robust network of 50,000+ alumni. This commitment involves igniting a culture of engagement and inclusivity, underpinned by a strong foundation in support of our Air Force Academy.
- BIO COPY CREDIT:  LINKEDIN.COM
MR. WYATT HORNSBY
Senior Vice President, Marketing & Communications | Executive Producer
Wyatt Hornsby is passionate about developing marketing and communications talent and cohesive, high-performance teams. He is senior vice president of marketing and communications at the Air Force Academy Foundation and the Association of Graduates. He leads the work of the foundation and alumni association marketing and communications division, while also coordinating with various Air Force Academy offices, including Public Affairs and Strategic Communications.
- BIO COPY CREDIT:  LINKEDIN.COM
 
 
CONNECT WITH THE LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP PODCAST NETWORK TEAM
Send your feedback or nominate a guest: socialmedia@usafa.org
Ted Robertson | Producer and Editor:  Ted.Robertson@USAFA.org 
Ryan Hall | Director:  Ryan.Hall@USAFA.org 
Bryan Grossman | Copy Editor:  Bryan.Grossman@USAFA.org
Wyatt Hornsby | Executive Producer:  Wyatt.Hornsby@USAFA.org 
 
 
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AVAILABLE ON ALL MAJOR PODCAST PLATFORMS
 
 
FULL TRANSCRIPT
SPEAKERS
Co-Hosts:  Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99  |  Mr. Wyatt Hornsby
 
Naviere Walkewicz  00:26
Welcome to our retrospective for Season 3. We’re celebrating the first three seasons of the Association & Foundation’s premier podcast and the countless leadership lessons shared by some of the most accomplished Air Force Academy grads.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  00:41
Naviere, in Season 3, we’ve showcased some amazing stories and takeaways that apply to life, both in and out of the military. From the start, Long Blue Leadership has given listeners an inside look at real experiences, insights and advice from seasoned leaders as well as those just beginning their journeys. These deep dives explore how leaders not only face challenges head on, but also find ways to inspire and empower those around them.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  01:06
These conversations are amazing. What really sets this podcast apart are how these leadership discussions consistently touch on teamwork, perseverance, humility, excellence and service before self.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  01:17
Well said, Naviere. And in this edition of Long Blue Leadership, we’re gonna respond to a few clips and share our own perspectives related to some of our favorite moments, and we’ll also preview what’s coming up in Season 4.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  01:30
Now Wyatt and I would be remiss if we didn’t share — listen, we could go on about every guest that’s on this podcast, because everyone is remarkable, but we’re just going to focus on a few of them. So let's jump right into some of our favorite moments from Season 3.
 
Wyatt Hornsby 
Let’s do it.
 
Naviere Walkewicz 
All right. Well, this first clip is someone that you’re going to recognize: Dr. Heather Wilson, Class of ’82. What an amazing graduate. And you know, when we think about what she’s accomplished — she’s a Distinguished Graduate, secretary of the Air Force, I mean, going on into Congress — she is a mentor for many. And this particular clip, she actually is referring to someone who’s been a mentor for her and being able to make an impact in his life. So let’s take a listen.
 
Dr. Heather Wilson  02:12
My grandfather was an aviator. He was also a mechanic. He could use any tool. I mean, he was just amazing with his hands. And I had learned a new tool in school, and I took out a piece of graph paper, and I drew a curve, and I said, “Grandpa, do you think you could find the area under this curve?” And he said, “Well, I’d probably count up the squares and estimate from there on the graph paper.” And I then I showed him something new, and it was called calculus, and it was the first time in my life that I realized I had a tool that my grandfather didn’t have. He had a high school education and had gone into the RAF during the First World War, and he was a great mechanic and a really good man, but I realized that there were opportunities for me that maybe my grandfather never had.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  03:14
What an amazing conversation with her. What did you think about that comment about the tool?
 
Wyatt Hornsby  03:19
That's very, very moving. You can see just what her grandfather, what he meant to her, and just to think about those experiences and how they informed and influenced how Dr. Wilson has been a leader to so many in Congress, as secretary of the Air Force and now as president of the University of Texas, El Paso.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  03:38
Yes. And when you go back to that conversation, I think she talks about tools in a toolbox, and she relates it to her grandfather and her dad, I think, as well. But she talks about the toolbox almost serving as — you never know when you're going to need a tool. So as long as you collect tools over time, they can make a difference. And so she likens them to the people in your life and the people who serve with you and under you and above you. But if you start to recognize the tools that they have, you never know when they're going to make a difference. And in her case, she was actually able to provide a tool like calculus for her grandfather.
 
Wyatt Hornsby 
A great lesson.
 
Naviere Walkewicz 
Yes, yes. So make sure you take a listen on that one.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  04:15
Well, Naviere, this next conversation I absolutely love — Chad Hennings, Class of 1988, who went on, I believe, to serve in the Gulf War, flew the A-10 before joining the Super Bowl-winning Dallas Cowboys. And I love this conversation. Chad talks in this conversation about who you are isn’t necessarily what you do. It comes from who you are from within. I just love this clip. Let’s listen to it.
 
Chad Hennings  04:41
One of the questions that I ask someone who is changing and transitioning in their careers, whether that be from professional athletics or from the military, I ask them, “Who are you?” You know, a lot of times they'll say, “I'm well, I'm Captain so-and-so,” or, “I'm a former F-16 fighter pilot,” or, “I’m a former running back.” I go, “That’s what you do. Who are you? What you do does not define who you are.” I mean, that's the thing that I think so many people need to grasp, is that their identity is not based on what they do. It's more of an inner pursuit.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  05:14
Well, I won't put you on the spotlight and ask you who you are, but I remember that conversation, and it was really quite a reflective one for me, because I remember, as he was sharing those things, I started thinking, “Well, who am I, you know, as a leader, etc.” So that was really meaningful.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  05:30
Indeed. I mean, all across our lives and careers, we do a lot of different things. We wear a lot of different hats at various points, and I think it’s hard, but I think it’s so meaningful to really reflect on your own personal values in determining really who you are from within. I just loved how Chad talked about that.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  05:50
Yes, that was just one of the lessons that he shared. And I think it really kind of goes back to understanding yourself and growing as a leader. So it’s certainly a wonderful conversation for those interested. Well, let’s take a visit to one of our younger graduates. Most recently, 2024 class, and his name is Wyatt Hendrickson, so another Wyatt here. Some might remember him as Captain America. I think he’s been called that lately, in the news, but known for just his accomplishments in the world of wrestling and what he’s continuing to go on, hopefully here in the Olympics. But this conversation really is about some real insightful moments that I think he’s had as a young leader, that he recognizes the importance of doing things for yourself. And some might first think, “Well, that sounds kind of selfish, right? You know, we're taught to be team members and team players and do things together.” But when we, when we listen to this clip, I think we understand why he talks about doing things for yourself. Let’s take a listen.
 
Wyatt Hendrickson  06:49
As a leader in at the Air Force Academy, I started going to these briefs, and I’m like, “You know, I’m not going to try to have the a bad mindset. I’m not going to show up here, just check a box. I’m going to show up here and try to take something from it.” So what I did, I bring like a notebook or a small little pamphlet, just to write notes. And everything you do, do it with intent. Don’t do it because you’re afraid of a bad result — you’re afraid of something here, there. Do it because you want to do it, and you have to decide you’re doing it for yourself.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  07:18
You know, what I really like about that clip is understanding that you have to do things for yourself and not others. And so I liken it — you know, we are parents, and at one time we are children. And so we probably did things. We do things as parents for your children. When you’re a child, you do things because you don’t want to make your parents unhappy, or you want to make your teacher proud or your coach proud. And I think he learned early as a leader that if you’re going to do something with intent, to do it for yourself. What do you think?
 
Wyatt Hornsby  07:44
That’s right. Being able to invest in yourself so that you can show up for others as well. And so I think when you really consider that, he’s really talking about a little bit of service before self within that as well. And I think it’s working out well for him. You know, he just pulled off, some say, the biggest upset in NCAA wrestling history. And I agree, we’ll hope that he gets to the Olympics. Just what a remarkable young leader and athlete.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  08:11
Yes, and what an exciting and engaging conversation that I hope you’ll take a listen to as well. There were some exciting moments in there that he experienced, I think. You know, with the president and, you know, just kind of reflective moments with his coach, but certainly a conversation that many will be engaged by.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  08:28
And when we talked to him, his life was very busy, and we just so appreciate him taking time to talk with you, Naviere.
 
Naviere Walkewicz 
Yes, absolutely.
 
Wyatt Hornsby 
All right. Naviere, this next guest I absolutely love — Jemal Singleton, Class of 1999.
 
Naviere Walkewicz 
Gold will shine.
 
Wyatt Hornsby 
That’s right, assistant head coach for the Philadelphia Eagles, also coach for running backs for the Eagles. And this was such a great conversation. We were you were able to go to Philadelphia and sit down with Jemal and really hear his story and something — I mean, the conversation was just full of great insights. But one thing that Jemal said that I absolutely loved was, no matter where you are in your life and career, lead where you are. You don’t have to have a big team or direct reports, just lead where you are. So let’s listen to that clip.
 
Jemal Singleton  09:17
I think the biggest thing that you can do is lead where you’re at, and it doesn’t matter where you’re at. “Oh, well, I'm not the CEO,” or, “Oh, I'm not the head coach,” or, “Oh, I'm not the commander.” So? Leadership comes in a million different ways. And I truly believe that you know kind of what you do with the little things, is how you do everything. And if, in your position, whatever it may be — maybe nobody even works for you — you can still lead from that position. You can lead from that spot. And I think that's it. Don't be afraid to step out. Don't be afraid to be a leader in your own mind. It's got to start there. At some point, you keep honing those skills and then maybe you are going to grow. And then, hey, you have three people working for you, but you then be a leader at that point. And it’s kind of like what I mentioned earlier, about be where your feet are; lead where your feet are at.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  10:09
What a great insight. And I think that is just so helpful for not only people who are earlier in their career, and maybe they want to be able to grow as a leader. But also for leaders as well, in terms of how they instill in the people who they're privileged to lead, how they can continue to grow and advance.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  10:30
Yes, what a great life lesson in general. I think sometimes we are so eyes forward on the next thing, that we forget to be our best at the present and the moment. And that was a really, I think, a key message that I took from that was, you know, when he says, lead where you are, you know, be fully present where you are, just like we are right now, reliving, kind of that moment with him. And so what an engaging and amazing conversation with Coach Jemal Singleton. Of course, being a ’99 grad, you'd expect that, but, you know?
 
Wyatt Hornsby  10:58
We wish him. We wish him all the best. What a run he's on right now. Congrats to the Eagles.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  11:03
Yes. And if I may just offer this: I did want to extend to the team with the Eagles — I mean, what a world class operation out there, to be able to invite us in and put us in their amazing studio to help us share the story that really goes beyond the football, right? It goes beyond the field and how they're doing things as leaders out there. So thank you so much for that amazing support. We really appreciate it. All right. This next clip, Wyatt, is someone that we know well. She is one of our past AOG board directors, Class of 2010, Emma Przybyslawski, also a Young Alumni Excellence Award winner for us, what a remarkable leader. You know, she served in the Air Force, in the special operations community, but also went on after the uniform to really kind of lead her team and her business. In this particular clip, she's talking about leadership outside of uniform. And I think it's important for our listeners to know that leadership comes in and outside of uniform, and so we want to make sure we highlight that. But this particular clip, she talks about getting to “no” as fast as you can — and that's an odd statement to hear, but I think it's really impactful.
 
Emma Przybyslawski  12:14
One of my key tenets is having the stomach to say, like, “Oof, this didn't work out the way that I wanted it to,” or, “Maybe we were wrong about that.” Step 1, right? Admitting the problem. Step 2 is then pivot, move on, let it go. Just let it go, and either take some great lessons learned from it — hopefully you do — or just bail on it and like, go on to something different. Get to no as fast as you can. Like, no is an OK answer, but man, let’s get there as fast as we can. Because the more time you iterate and waste on bad ideas that you don't know if they're bad yet, that they're going to be, the sooner you can get to no, the better off you are.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  12:59
I really like that, just because it's so different. I mean, it's a different perspective on being thoughtful. on resources and time and how you actually utilize all that as a leader and when you're making decisions that impact others. I just thought that was really insightful. What'd you get from it?
 
Wyatt Hornsby  13:16
I agree, and what I hear from that is integrity and discipline. No one likes to admit that they’re wrong. It’s not the most fun thing in the world, but what I heard Emma say was, “If we got something wrong, just admit it. Get there as quickly as possible, learn and move on.” So I love that leadership insight.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  13:33
Yes, and when you look through history and you think about, those greats, those innovators — but you know, over time, they failed because they failed to actually move forward or stop something that was no longer working. They just held on so tight. I think as a leader, it's important to recognize that. And her, as you know, such, I think, a young and enthusiastic and, you know, impactful leader realizing that it’s an important lesson I think we can all take.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  13:56
It’s easy to see, you know, when we hear Emma talk about leadership, it's easy to see how far she's come in life, and, you know, what she's been able to do.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  14:05
Yes, so make sure you listen to that. While she does talk about that outside of uniform, she does share some incredible stories while she was in the special operations community. I think our listeners will really enjoy learning some of that too.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  14:16
All right, Naviere, our next guest, Dr. John Torres, Class of 1982 — and that's a name that many of our listeners and viewers may be familiar with. Chief medical correspondent for NBC News. And I love this conversation. Dr. Torres was able to take time from his schedule and visit with us here in Wecker Hall. And really what he talked about, what I took away from this was that leaders earn respect and loyalty. They take care of their people, and they put their people really before themselves. So let's listen to this clip.
 
Dr. John Torres  14:47
Watching leaders and how they did things, both when I was here at the Academy and when I was in the Air Force and even through medical school, the doctors that were good and talked to people appropriately. The leaders that were good and they had the men and women following them because they wanted to follow them, versus following them because they had to follow them. And as you know, there's a huge difference there. And I tried to model myself after the ones who had people who followed them because they wanted to follow — they respected them. They earned that respect. They earned that loyalty. And to me, that was always an important thing. And so when I transitioned over to medicine, especially being a flight doc, I wanted them to do the things that medically were important for them because they wanted to, because they trusted me, and they understood that I was looking out for them and not just their career or not just their flying, but looking out for them and their families.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  15:32
I remember that conversation.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  15:35
Caring deeply about the person, and not necessarily what they — putting that before what they do.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  15:41
Exactly. That conversation went on because it was referencing the fact that, as a medical doctor in the service, you know, you had those that really wanted to fly like that was their calling. And when they had a medical issue arise, you know, Dr. Torres, because he led in the way that he did. He created that relationship and that trust, to be able to say, “This is what we're up against,” and, you know, to be able to make a leadership and a professional recommendation, and then that, you know, “I care about you as a person, so I'm gonna ask you to consider this,” even if it might be the hard decision that they'd have to make. And I think that that goes a long way for leaders, because sometimes we have to give bad news to our people.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  16:21
That's right, and really caring about those who were charged with leading and taking care of their best interests, sometimes having those tough conversations. But when we do that, when we authentically care about our people, they will respect us. They will trust and that's really what he was talking about. Powerful.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  16:43
I think we could probably both think about examples of leaders in our lives that maybe we didn't get the best news, but we always knew they had our best interests, and we would walk through fire for them.
 
Wyatt Hornsby 
That's right.
 
Naviere Walkewicz 
Yes, what a great conversation with an amazing speaker. You'll have to take a listen to the entire conversation with Dr. Torres, because his was really incredible. And the fact that he actually almost left the Academy, but stayed because of survival training. So you make sure you listen to that. All right. Well, this last clip we're going to visit is, gosh, I still just got goose bumps thinking about the conversation with him. It's a recent conversation with Maj. Gen. Tom P. Sherman, Class of 1995, the current vice superintendent of the Air Force Academy. And I could go on and on about, you know, the way he inspires through his words, but this particular clip, Wyatt, was one where he talks about courage, right? And when he recognized a moment in time. This is from a conversation with his AOC, back when he was a cadet at the Air Force Academy, and he had a moment of clarity.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  17:45
We've both had the opportunity to see Gen. Sherman speak, and just an incredible speaker and presenter — really gets to know his audience. So let's listen.
 
Maj. Gen. Thomas P. Sherman  17:57
But I think really where the Foundation came in is where we started to talk about leadership. And you know, what I was asking him to do was to pull my rated recommendation form. So we had just submitted them, and I was asking him to pull my rated recommendation form. I didn't want to compete for it anymore. And so we started to talk about leadership. And he says, “You know, hey, Cadet Sherman, you need to understand that, you know, leadership in this Air Force is being the lead F-16 pilot on a bombing run. You know, putting iron on target.” And that's true. It's a very important part of leadership. It is a very important part of tactical operational leadership in this Air Force. So he's not wrong in that space, but I was looking at it from a different lens, and I was looking at it, I think, on a larger level. And what I don't think he realized is that 30 seconds before I walked into his office, he set me up for success. I just happened to be waiting outside the office, and all of a sudden I looked on his cork board, and somebody, and I don't know who it was, had pinned a note that was written to Airman Magazine by an airman first class. And this airman first class titled this, “I need a leader.” And this A1C felt so strongly about what they were feeling, and I have no idea who this person was, felt so strongly about it that they put pen to paper — and this would have been the fall of 1994 — and sent this into Airman Magazine, and it says, “I need a leader. Commissioning sources: Send us lieutenants that we can look up to that will hold us accountable when we do wrong, that will encourage us when we do well, that will be an example that we can look up to, that will care about us as human beings, because you are not sending them to us now. Air Force: I need a leader.” Like that 30 seconds just before I walked into his office, that changed my life. And it changed my life, because for me, at that moment, what I was getting ready to go ask my AOC to do what I was looking at inside myself like that became my charge.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  19:57
Naviere, I mean, as a graduate, how does that land with you?
 
Naviere Walkewicz  20:01
I have chill bumps right now, and it's not because it's cold in here, because it's not. I think you nailed it when you said he's someone who can really kind of inspire through his words. But you know, when I hear him say that, it makes me want to go back through the Academy all over again. I want to do it again to see if I can do it better. Because I want to be a leader for that airman and for anyone else that is serving alongside me, under me, etc. That's what I felt hearing that again.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  20:33
Yeah, and just from the whole conversation, I mean, that's really, I think that's the essence of Gen. Sherman's career, in my eyes, is that he has done everything he can to deliver or to develop as a leader and to be able to bring out the best in everyone who he has had the opportunity to lead and work with.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  20:51
One of my favorite moments in that conversation was about, you know, “What do you want your legacy to be?” You know, I think that was some kind of — that was maybe a way that I asked the question, and his answer was so unique, because he said, “You know, I don't really think about legacy, like, down the road.” He says — it's almost like he thinks about it in real time, and I'm paraphrasing, so you'll have to listen to the conversation. But he talked about, like, his legacy is when he makes an impact in every moment. So, like, this, you and I together, if I'm able to make an impact through our conversation, like, that's his legacy. And in off the screen, I didn't get to share this in our conversation, but my son, Arden, he's a cadet now, and when I told him I was going to be doing this podcast with Gen. Sherman, he had nothing but amazing — “Mom, I would walk through fire for him. He's so amazing. He's so inspiring.” And I shared that with Gen. Sherman, I said, “Well, you should know, sir, that you created a legacy with my son,” and it actually brought some emotion to him, and that that's who he is. I think that's who we want to be.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  21:52
Absolutely a remarkable leader and just an amazing episode. And hope that you all take the time to listen to it.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  22:00
Yes. So those were our highlights from Season 3. And like I said, we could go on about every one of our guests, because they're so impactful and amazing. And just — we take something from each of them.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  22:12
We did Naviere, and I want to just take a moment too, just to thank you for doing such a great job in Season 3. And just not asking questions, but just having conversations. And it's just easy to see that this just is kind of like a conversation over coffee, where you're just talking about leadership and really getting a sense of what their journey has been, whether it's been the good or the not so good, but just really finding out who they are authentically. So thank you, Naviere, just for leading those conversations.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  22:43
It's my great pleasure. I think some of the best work behind the scenes comes from this place of wanting to help share their story in a way that our listeners may not have ever heard before, and almost unlocking within them something that surprises themselves, about themselves, you know what I mean? Where they're actually like, “Wow, I'm sharing this,” and it's almost unlocking this new portal on leadership, on themselves. And so that's kind of how I always approach preparation for a conversation. And my goal is just to leave someone with something that really resonates with them.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  23:18
Well done, Naviere. And while we're at it, we're going to put Ted, our producer, our amazing producer, on the spot here. Ted, congratulations again on a great Season 3. And what are you — just any reflections that you want to share?
 
Ted Robertson  23:33
Loving watching Naviere grow and glow as a host — she's just my favorite person ever to work with, and thank all of you. This doesn't happen without a whole team committing time and resources and effort, eyes, ears, ideas. It doesn't happen without this group effort. It's a wonderful, wonderful place to be in. Speaking of places to be, you're going to talk about this a little later. Some listener feedback coming up next that Wyatt is going to tell you about. But we have the gift of a new studio that you're some of you are seeing for the first time inside of our new building that we can't wait for many of you to see. So thank you both for everything you do, your support, your encouragement and giving me this couple of minutes to share my thoughts with all of you.
 
Naviere Walkewicz 
Thanks, Ted.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  24:23
Yeah. Thank you, Ted, again, great work, and we're just we're very grateful for all the heart and soul you put into Long Blue Leadership.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  24:31
Well, up next, Wyatt has some listener feedback to share with you, but before we do that, I'd like to take a moment and thank you for listening to Long Blue Leadership. This podcast publishes the first and third Tuesdays of the month in both audio and video, and is available on all your favorite podcast apps. Be sure to watch or listen to all episodes of Long Blue Leadership at longblueleadership.org. Once more, that's longblueleadership.org
 
Wyatt Hornsby  24:58
And a note I saw from Allison D. in reference to Naviere’s conversation, particularly with Emma Przybyslawski. And this highlights how hard Naviere has worked and how well she has done as host of Long Blue Leadership. And I'll start with Allison's note to Naviere, and then I'd like to add some thoughts of my own. From Allison: “Just wanted to do a quick shout out to let you know that I've been listening to your interview with Emma P. and I thought you did a phenomenal job. Emma's willingness to share her perspective in experiences in such an authentic way was a testament to her. But I also wanted you to know that while I was actively listening to her responses, I was also blown away by your ability to follow up with each response with an insightful and natural follow up question. My brain was still digesting her last response, and I don't know how you were able to digest and formulate such an interesting follow up question in such a short amount of time. Well done, Naviere.”
 
Naviere Walkewicz  25:58
I remember that comment. What a special moment to get that from Allison. Thanks for sharing that, Wyatt.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  26:05
Our pleasure, and thank you again, Naviere, for doing such a great job as our host.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  26:10
Well, Wyatt, let's talk about Season 4. It's coming out. Yes, some new things. Do you want to talk about kind of where we're in right now? What to expect?
 
Wyatt Hornsby  26:17
We're going to be having 13 episodes. Ten are going to be Long Blue Leadership, and then two are going to be really developmental focus, special presentations. Can't wait for that. And then, of course, we'll wrap up Season 4 with a retrospective, Naviere.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  26:31
Oh gosh, it's going to be amazing. I think what we've learned from the past seasons are people really enjoy hearing the stories from graduates that they can connect with — some transformational moments in their lives. But really excited. We kicked it off here at the end of Season 3 will be coming from our new studio here in Wecker Hall, so they'll get to see the studio and really hear the stories from our graduates. Those are really influential and key leaders in their fields.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  26:56
I can't wait. And some of our guests — they’ll include academics, warfighters, general officers, business leaders, scholars, diplomats, entrepreneurs, policymakers and others.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  27:08
Yes, and you mentioned it, that kind of leadership. Those two special episodes on leadership, this focus on leadership, we're actually going to go to experts in a field. Maybe they're published authors, but they are going to be some real experts that help our graduates and our listeners hone in on their leadership development. So it's really going to give them some tactical and tangible things that they can do to improve on their own leadership.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  27:30
I can't wait Naviere, an exciting new feature on leadership as we just continue to elevate our game. It's going to be really great.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  27:37
It's going to be great. It's going to — that focus on leadership will kick off in October with our second one in December. Wyatt and I want to thank you for joining us today. We can't wait to share the fourth season of Long Blue Leadership with you. Starting this September, you can expect more compelling stories from outstanding Air Force Academy graduates. We like to keep the podcast conversations thoughtful and aimed at telling our guests stories as we explore their personal leadership journeys, their philosophies and their styles. Season 4 promises to engage, inspire and empower. Whether you're an aspiring, emerging or seasoned leader, visit longblueleadership.org for more episodes and past seasons, or nominate a guest or send us your feedback at socialmedia@usafa.org. Long Blue Leadership is available on all your favorites podcast apps.
 
Wyatt Hornsby  28:30
And Naviere, this was such a great conversation, and I want to encourage you, if you've listened to these episodes or you've watched and you were particularly inspired, please share across your social media channels, share with your friends and colleagues and family members, because we really want these conversations to be for anyone who's interested in developing as a leader, regardless of what career pursuit they've taken.
 
Naviere Walkewicz  28:54
We like to say “like, subscribe and share.” There you go. Well, I'm Naviere Walkewicz.
 
Wyatt Hornsby 
And I'm Wyatt Hornsby.
 
Naviere Walkewicz 
Until next time.
 
KEYWORDS
Leadership, Air Force Academy, mentorship, personal growth, teamwork, perseverance, service, identity, respect, legacy.
 
 
 
The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association & Foundation
 
 

The Association of Graduates and Air Force Academy Foundation just dropped a special episode of Long Blue Leadership, featuring our continuing coverage of the 32nd National Character and Leadership Symposium.

In this special episode of Long Blue Leadership, we present our Long Blue Line Podcast Network coverage of National Character and Leadership Symposium 2025.

The Long Blue Leadership team was in attendance at the 2024 National Character and Leadership Symposium and interviewed several NCLS speakers.